Geodetics compared to Relocated Angles

© 2000 by L Blake Finley, M.A.

last updated, Jan 2002


An earlier version of this article appeared in September 1999, the computer files subsequently destroyed due to internet-related problems.  The article is now being reconstructed and re-written, piece by piece.

In June 1983, Joyce Wehrman presented a memorable (taped) lecture at an NCGR in Oakland, California on the Geodetics.  That lecture, in conjunction with  Ruth Brummund's writings on the fixed Local Angles (LM and LA), and early cooperative research with Iaen Sullivan, were the original sparks that triggered the writing of this article.  I have worked with both (what are hereafter referred to as) the fixed angles (i.e. Geodetic or Local angles), and (what are hereafter referred to as) the non-fixed natal-relocated angles (i.e. Astrocartography aka Astrolocality aka Astrogeography), and found that the fixed angles yield more significant information about the objective external conditions that one experiences at any given location.

A major point here is that non-fixed angles include the relocated personal  MC and AS that would result if one re-cast a natal chart for any given location on the planet.  Astrocartography/ Astrogeography/ Astrolocality maps (derived from the non-fixed angles) are unique to each individual, and provide information about one's personal, subjective inner experience of any given location.  Accuracy in their usage requires that one know the exact birth time of the individual.

In contrast, the fixed angles (Geodetic and Local: where every given point on the globe has a unique combination of geodetic Ascendant and MC) yield information about how one relates to the objective public/world realities of a given location. Note that while the Geodetic/Local MC and AS are fixed and impersonal, the interactions between the astrological chart and the fixed angles are nonetheless also unique to each individual. Thus both the non-fixed and fixed systems of reference are valid, and both can be interpreted in ways that match specifically to any given individual -- yet each of the two provides us with different information, one on a subjective level, and the other on a more objective and environmentally-referenced level.

Just as there are various names for the relocation/non-fixed system, there are slight variations within the fixed system remaining today.  The two fixed systems in widest use are one usually ascribed during the last few centuries to British astrologer Sepharial (actually used by an American astrologer named Parsons as early as 1883, per Baigent et al's Mundane Astrology) , and another to the German astrologer Alfred M. Grimm. (It is not asserted here who actually invented the systems, but whose books on the subject have been available in recent times.)  Both these systems, i.e. that of Sepharial and Grimm, are based on the premise that the Greenwich 0° meridian of longitude correlates exactly with 0° Aries  MC, and that the 0° Cancer Ascendant crosses the Greenwich meridian at the Equator.  (See map below.)  From an overall, global perspective, the differences are subtle -- the Sepharial system, developed in recent centuries probably in Britain or the USA, and more prevalent in the USA, employs zodiacal longitude to adjust the MC and AS for various locations; while the Grimm system, developed in Germany and using the Local Angles (or OM: Ortsmeridian and OA: Ortsaszendent) employs Right Ascension to adjust the angles.  The differences between the two systems can be as much as about 2 degrees, but in  many locations the difference is minimal, and similar, if not identical results, will be derived.   Because of this relatively small difference, and the frequency of similar results, research is still to verify which of the two is the most accurate, and one might experiment with both systems in the meantime. 

 [ Geodetic maps with MC indicators appeared as early as the 1935 in the National Astrological Journal, in articles by Harry Suthann.  An older Geodetic map was reproduced in Al Morrison's CAO Times in the early 1980s.  The author first developed both a manually-modified geodetic world globe and atlas showing Ascendant lines in 1983, and the globe and maps were shared with astrologer Iaen Sullivan, who shared the maps with Bob/Robert Campbell, who stole them and presented them as his own material. The author continued with development of the above computer-generated map, as well as a map showing the Geodetic Vertex lines, and other regional maps. ]

L Edward Johndro for a number of years employed a system where the 0° Greenwich reference point was adjusted per equinoctial precession and the majority of his books in circulation employed this system.  It is possible that this older Johndro system is more effective if one uses the siderial zodiac, where notation of the planetary positions is also precessed.  However, according to an article by Charles Jayne in the Larousse Encyclopedia of Astrology, after extensive testing, Johndro later reverted to the Sepharial system due to its greater accuracy.  A number of astrologers, nonetheless, continued to use his precessed system in conjunction with the planets referenced to the Tropical Zodiac, even after Johndro realized that the geodetic points should be precessed only if the planets are as well (i.e. essentially using the Siderial Zodiac).  One likely reason why a number of astrologers retained the precessed system is because Johndro's books on the subject were published before he realized the true overall significance of precession, and reverted to the 0° Greenwich baseline.  This is one more example of the danger of working with early or undeveloped historical hypotheses, particularly if out of context, as though they are the definitive answer.  Validity must be established only after continued observation and verification here and now, today... it is up to us to test these systems ourselves.  Computer software programs today offer the option to experiment and investigate with these systems.

To recap, the non-fixed (Astrocartography / Astrolocality / Astrogeography)  angles are based on individual birthtimes relocated as though an individual were born at the locations under consideration.  The information yielded is of a more subjective nature (compared to the fixed system) as it is based on subjective reference points (one's personal Ascendant and MC relocated).  Thus the non-fixed system focuses more on internal and psychological dynamics than on objective conditions outside the individual.

The fixed (Geodetic or Local) angles are relatively fixed reference points and are applicable to all living beings in a more objective sense.  For example, the analysis of the fixed Geodetic or Locational MC yields information on how one experiences general local conditions in relation to one's life goals and career matters at the given location, while planetary configurations with fixed Geodetic/Locational AS yield information on how one experiences the general local environmental/social conditions in an outer, objective sense.

Geodetics, or Local MC and Ascendant, provide the most objective source of locational analysis, and are used frequently by political and mundane astrologers.   I have also found them extremely accurate in describing the objective professional conditions (MC) and everyday environmental/social conditions in the various cities in which I have lived, particularly via Uranian midpoint analysis.  It is to their disadvantage that many astrologers overlook them, as they are a compact technique that gives access to far-reaching, objective data when inserted into any individual chart.


The work of Chris McRae in Alberta should not be overlooked... she informs me that she presented Geodetic research material in the late 1970s at North American astrological conferences, and has published a large-size Geodetic world wall-map, as well as a book on how to construct the map.  For information, link to



Baigent, M., and Campion, N., and Harvey, C. (1984). Mundane Astrology. London: Aquarian Press.  A broad overview of various locational analysis systems, including Astrocartography, and the static systems of Sepharial and Grimm. This book gives a most comprehensive and description of the history of the fixed (Geodetic/Locational) systems. (496 pages).

Brummund, R. (1979). Orts-Meridiane und Orts-Aszendenten von Welhauptstädten: Hamburg: Witte-VerlagUtilizes the Grimm RAMC system and includes an extensive listing of major world cities, in German but useable without knowledge of German.  A handy, quick reference for work with the fixed geodetic Local angles as calculated by Alfred Grimm.

Finley, L. B. (1985). Geodetics and Political History. CAO Times, 2 (4).  A short article providing an overview of the application of Geodetics with historical examples and a short bibliography of literature published prior to 1985.

Johndro, L. E. (1929). The Earth in the Heavens. New York: original publisher unknown. Later reprinted by Samuel Weiser, 1979. Employs Johndro's later-rejected precessed system; nonetheless has interesting scientific, technical, and philosophical ramifications. (151 pages)

Lewis, J.  (1997). The Psychology of Astrocartography. London: Penguin: delineates psychological interpretations of how the individual relates to relocated birthchart angles. (341 pages)

McRae, I. I. C.  (1988). The Geodetic World Map. Tempe: AFA:  utilizes the Sepharial Longitudinal system.  Includes a listing of major world cities and an overall description of the system. (117 pages).  Ms McRae has also recently produced a large geodetic world wall-map.  Information can be found at

McRae, I. I. C. (1990). The Geodetic Equivalent Method of Prediction. The Astrology of the Macrocosm. Saint Paul MN, USA: Llewellyn Publications: This concise introduction to geodetics in practical application is one chapter in an anthology of excellent articles by accomplished contemporary astrologers, with a general focus on mundane astrology and cultural issues.  This book is a real prize for people interested in mundane astrology.

Sepharial: (1925). Geodetics. London: Foulsham; later reprinted by the AFA: the classic booklet on how Geodetics work. (61 pages)

Suthann, H. (1935). Planets over Nations. The National Astrological Journal, 7 ,8 , 9, 10. Brief 1-page analyses and forecasts based on application of astrological geodetics, employing both planetary longitudes and latitudes, with maps, in four different issues of the journal.

Wehrman, J. (1983).  Tape recording of lecture by Ms Wehrmann on geodetics at NCGR conference at Mills College in Oakland California, June 10-12, 1983.